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I just got finished installing a set of Spiegler brake lines on Kiera's '01 SV650. I'm very happy with the final result, the fit is excelent and the brake feel is very good. Huge improvement over stock lines, no question.
However, getting the right kit was... a challenge.
Kiera'a bike has fork tubes and cartridges from a '98 Honda CBR600F3, which are longer than stock SV fork tubes by about an inch and a half. As a result the fork tubes stick up above the tripleclamp by that much to maintain the stock ride height and geometry.
Because the fork tubes stick up higher, the stock bars don't fit into the stock locations.
I used the F3 clipons initially so the bike would be ridable. This didn't really work that well since the stock brake line is too long for that without it being routed funny, and the brake and clutch levers come really close to the turn signals. See the pictures on the first length test to see what I mean.
I got some 1" GenMar bar risers to lift the bars high enough to clear the fork caps. This was a good thing because Kiera wants the bars higher anyway.
I called up Spiegler and asked them to send me a two line set of brake hoses for an '01 SV650 (naked) but one inch longer than stock to acomodate the 1" bar risers.
A couple days later they show up and I measure them, and they're too short.
Seriously.
One of them was 30", the other 32".
This I found odd since I could have sworn I measured the stock lines as being about 18" (for the lower ones) and 13" (for the upper one) That would suggest that stock length would be about 31" and somewhat more than that for the left caliper (18+13=31). An inch longer than that would mean the shorter one should be 32".
But I'm open minded about this, perhaps when going from a 3 to a 2 line system there's certain efficiencies that can be had by not going through the manifold on the lower triple clamp, so I put the bike on the front stand, mount up the stock bars in the bar risers, and hold the lines up to the calipers and see if they'll fit.
this is what it looked like.
The other curiosity is that the hoses came with one 0° end and three 20° ends. Every other time I've seen lines set up like this the straight one sits at the master cylinder with one of the bent ones angled away from it, to give them some space.
But in this case, the longer hose (32") was the one with the straight banjo. That means that either the hoses have to cross, or the right caliper hose has to angle away from the centerline of the bike.
This doesn't make sense to me, and combined with them appearing to be too short I decide to give Spiegler a call to see if perhaps there was some mistake in the labling, manufacture, or ordering of the hoses.
I have a nice conversation with a guy name "John" (I think) who says they've shipped hundreds of these kits to people and never had a complaint, and yes, in fact I got exactly what I ordered, the stock length is 29" and 31" respectively. Yes, you read that right. The stock lengths they ship for naked SV's is 29" and 31".
John recomends that I mount them up and check if they really don't fit, and call him back if there's still a problem.
Next I disconnect the manifold from the lower triple clamp and raise the forks a little bit to get the stock lines to fit with bar risers, partially to see if it'll work, but mostly because I was sick of waiting and I wanted to ride the bike. (yes, it's Kiera's bike, but if I'm going to work on it, I get to ride it)
Oddly enough it does work! It's tight, but the stock lines will work with 1" bar risers. It's bogus, and I don't like it, but it works.
I then did a more reasonable measurement of the lines against the bike. This time there's no guessing. Since the bars are in their final position, it'll be clear if the new ones fit or not..
I'd say not. Here's some pictures of my measurements.
Even with the hoses kinda tight, and not routed as they should be, at best they might fit but be tight. I don't want my brake lines to be tight, ever. Given that the forks are higher in the triples than stock, and the brake lever is tilted down a bit (I like it that way) that leaves no room for adjustment for higher ride height or more up-angled brake lever. This isn't good. They just don't fit.
Oh yea, and what the hell's with the straight banjo being on the one going to left side of the bike?
Another call to John at Spiegler.
I tell him I've got the stock hoses mounted, and when I hold the ones they sent me up to the bike they just don't fit without stretching. We go back and forth a few times reading measurements off the chart he's got, me saying, (paraphrased) "I swear to you, they're shorter than stock lines, and you're saying that they're 1" longer than stock, so one of us is on crack, but I'm the one with the bike in front of me." and him saying, "we've sold hundreds and nobody has complained.", and me saying, "what's with the weird-ass ends that require either reversing the lines or pointing them way outside the bike?" and him saying something that sounded like he was making it up as he went along.
I think most people must install them with the front wheel on the ground and the suspension compressed. That would make them fit, until you wanted the front suspension to go to full extension, and then the brake lines would become the limiting factor in suspenion travel. That's bad.
The conversation started with, "we can't take returns on custom orders" and ended with, "we'll make them an inch longer and swap the straight banjo for a 20° one but you'll pay for shipping."
I can live with that. But that's not the funny part.
The funny part is that in the middle of the conversation he says, "I don't usually tell people this, but you can stretch the lines if they're too short. You can get another couple inches out of a set of lines by getting the two biggest guys in the shop to hold onto the ends and pull really hard."
I'm not making this up. He really said that. At that point I was unsure if I'd want them to make the lines longer for me, I'd rather just buy custom ones that are the right length. I guess stretching them kinda makes sense though. When you stretch a braided steel line, the volume of the line doesn't change, it gets longer and thinner. The teflon core and PVC jacket are pretty flexible so they can accommodate a fair amount of stretch. When you put pressure on the inside of the line the steel braid can't get bigger in volume, so it still works as advertized - no expansion under brake usage.
I decided against letting them change the banjo and stretching the lines, instead I got a second set.
They arrived the other day and I installed them. They fit beautifully.
The Spiegler lines come with a thing that allows you to hold the line in a vice firmly and a plastic rod to twist the banjo with respect to the hose. This is a really nice feature, it means there's no twisting on the line when installed. It took a couple tries to get the relative angles correct, but when I did they fit beautifully. The banjos line up with the bolts and the master cylinder and the calipers without any twisting on the hose itself. Very slick.
The lines are 31" and 33" long, and all four ends have 20° bend banjo fittings. This allows for a little bit of slack when the suspension is fully extended, which means I can tinker with brake lever angle and front ride height without having to worry about the lines. The 20° ends mean that the master cyclinder ends line up nicely next to each other, routing just inside the headlight bracket. It looks much better than if it had been one bent and one straight.
The lines work as advertized. Brake feel is really nice. At this point it's hard to really evaluate Spiegler vs. Galfer vs. anyone else, but I'm pretty darn happy with what I've got.
An interestign curiosity is that I measured the stock lines and they are in fact 18" and 13" long. That means that there is an efficiency of getting rid of the manifold, just not as much of an efficiency as they think. I still don't understand how they can think a 30" line is one inch longer than stock, when stock is 31".
Another thing I noticed was that the notch on the right caliper that keeps the banjo in place is really rough around the edges, like it was an afterthought by some guy with a grinder or something. It doesn't match the rest of the casting at all (or anything else on the bike) and the left caliper doesn't have that notch. I don't know what's up with that.
Downs:
Ohferchristsake! How hard is it to get the length and fittings right?
Net:
I'd get them from Spiegler again, but I wouldn't trust their
kit measurements without checking first.
The rotating fittings are really nice.
